# How do you count many bars of silence (rests)?

Playing in a jazz band there are often 5,6 or 8 bars of silence. This is no problem as I can count them on my fingers. But how do I count larger rests, for example 52, 112 or even longer rests, as in classical pieces?

What techniques do you have to count a large numbers of silent bars?

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I count bars 1-2-3-4 2-2-3-4 3-2-3-4 etc. in my head and simultaneously keep track on my fingers. Each finger denotes 1, thumb denotes 5, so I can count up to nine on one hand. So with two hands I can keep count up to 99. Major benefit of this is that I can multi-task - I keep counting whilst picking up mutes, pointing at music and so on. After a while you can preset a count, so if the conductor says start at bar 8 you put down thumb and three fingers and start counting from there.

One advantage of designating fingers as 1 and thumb as 5 over binary is that it's much easier to preload a count on your fingers. The disadvantage is that you can only count up to 100 on two hands, rather than 1000...

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As a trombonist, I often had VERY long sections of rest. Obviously I'm not going to sit there counting "one-two-three-four, two-two-three-four.....six-hundred-and-seventy-three-two-three-four... The composer or copyist must supply me with landmarks, including a prominent cue played by another instrument a few bars before my entry. Previous players of the part might leave me further pencilled-in information like "time for two pints here!".

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Back in my orchestra days I played oboe, so I often had long rests. Until you know when to come in based on what's happening in the other parts, as others have already said, you need to count bars of rest. I used to count on my fingers, but in binary, from left thumb to right thumb. That way, you can count to 2^10 or 1024, which is probably enough for most pieces. It starts like this: (all fingers are in except those noted) 1- left thumb; 2- left index; 3- left thumb and index; 4- left middle; 5- left thumb and middle; 6- left index and middle; 7- left thumb, index, and middle; 8- left ring;

etc. It's fun and easy to learn.

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You are never going to have to count beyond 1000. Rarely beyond 100. There will be a rehearsal letter or other marker long before that number of bars is reached. – Laurence Payne Mar 13 at 12:51
@LaurencePayne- yes, I realize that. In practice, I rarely needed more than one hand, which got me up to 2^5 or 32. But the method does work and it's fun. – Scott Wallace Mar 13 at 19:05

In an orchestral situation, it is a terrible idea to rely on the conductor - they may not be able to cue you or instead are going to give a more important cue. Just because you are not playing does not mean you're allowed to sit and wait for a bus. Scores that have been edited well will have "cues" written in the parts, so, say you zone out accidentally or lose your place after 200 measures, you see the cue for an oboe solo in your part and you know where you are.

Also, here are a couple good habits to get into:

• raise a finger or flick your leg each time you get to a rehearsal mark - this is a great way to keep a section together (trombones in Mahler, for example.)

• when counting measures, give one number to the entire measure, and take the measure's duration to say the number to yourself. Ex: Ooonnnnneeeee Twwwooooooo Threeeeee etc etc. Counting this way greatly reduces counting confusion.

• Like others have mentioned - listen to others around you; know what they are doing. Just like in a play, it's good to know everyone's lines around your lines so that if someone else screws up you're still good to go.

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I find it easier to count "one,two,three; two,two,three; three,two,three,..." to keep track of both the beat and the measure count. – Carl Witthoft Feb 19 '14 at 13:15
@CarlWitthoft - that type of counting is better than others, but quickly becomes impractical with fast tempi, asymmetrical time signatures, or large spans of rests. It also increases the chance of getting verbally tripped up by having to keep track of so many numbers. – jjmusicnotes Feb 19 '14 at 13:58
Well, sure, just count once per Presto measure; and if you've got varying time sigs then just restart the count. Maybe it's 'cause I'm in that group of (musician && mathematician) that big numbers don't bother me :-) – Carl Witthoft Feb 19 '14 at 15:32

Adding to Dom's answer, the key is often in listening for cues in other people. Find out what other parts are doing around the time you come back in and before, so you can listen for that sign that you're about to come back in.

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@slim I am ashamed that such a mistake could slip by me! Queue the depressing music ;D – Alexander Troup Feb 19 '14 at 8:36

You don't actually have to count every bar that you don't play especially if you go many bars without playing anything. Most large form pieces and even Jazz pieces are broken down into smaller parts i.e. an A section, a B section, C section, ect. So you could have sections A, B, and C be 32 bars each and you many not start playing until 4 bars into section C and instead of just counting 68 bars you could listen for the start of the C section and then count 4 bars.

If you know the song inside and out you may not even need to count the 4 bars you may just be able to "feel" when you come in.

Also the conductor in an orchestra will cue the instruments coming in as it is what they do.

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Don't rely on the conductor. He MAY assist you at the moment you start playing. He almost certainly won't give you a "pick your instrument up now" warning a few bars earlier. Your entry may be part of a tutti section where everyone plays after a lightly-scored passage. You won't get an individual cue, and there may have been previous tuttis not involving you, during your long rest. – Laurence Payne Mar 12 at 12:25

In an orchestra, let the conductor do the work for you - they should let you know your moment is coming.

In a smaller group, say a string quartet, you wouldn't expect such long rests (after all, you're 25% of the ensemble) - but learn what the other parts sound like and use that to time your return. So instead of "Now I count 64 bars", it's "I'll come back in after the third repetition of the main melody".

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Part one is badbadbad, see jjmusicnotes' answer. Part two is good for any ensemble: if there aren't cuenotes in your part, go ahead and write them in. – Carl Witthoft Feb 19 '14 at 13:14