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Let's first define the methods:

Thumb Under (TU): the thumb is brought under the hand in order to pass the 3rd or 4th finger for playing the scale. The thumb has movement up and down (to play the key), and to the sides (to do cross-over, to transition between group of notes). Here is how it looks like:

Thumb Under

Thumb Over (TO): the thumb is treated like the other 4 fingers, the thumb has only up and down movement (no lateral movement), so there is no thumb cross-over. The transition through group of notes in the scale is done with arm and wrist movement. The term is sometimes disliked because the thumb doesn't really go over anything, but that's what we'll call it for simplicity. It can also be seen as avoiding the Thumb Under method. We can see TO in action here.

Which are the particularities of each method? When one should be preferred over the other? Seems that some teachers go so far to prohibit the TU method and use strictly and exclusively the TO method. Why? This implies that it is not about preference, those teachers do believe the TU method is detrimental to their students. So, what's bad about the TU method? What does TO has that TU doesn't? And similarly, what does TU has that TO doesn't?

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  • Am I alone in finding that video utterly unhelpful in understanding this 'TO' technique? If "the thumb doesn't really go over anything" maybe a better name should be devised!
    – AakashM
    Jul 16, 2021 at 12:59
  • @AakashM in fact, when the pianist plays it faster, not only he still moves the thumb under for a fraction of time, but he actually skips some notes in the process.
    – musicamante
    Jul 17, 2021 at 17:51
  • From the link in this answer, the author claims "it is better for me to keep my hand at a steady angle and displace the arm quickly to the right when shifting from the third finger to the thumb, and I have learned how to accomplish this legato" - I personally cannot see how this can be done legato without (eg in C major) finger 3 staying on E until the thumb is ready to play F by passing under 3
    – AakashM
    Jul 20, 2021 at 11:02

3 Answers 3

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I think that eventually most players will adopt their own version, with some of each. Right hand moving from left to right will need the thumb to traverse the keys in some way, obviously. Thinking about it, the hand will move to the right also,to be ready positioned for the subsequent notes further to the right. Therefore there will inevitably be some lateral movement of the thumb, in combination with some movement of the hand, and because it's attached, the forearm, if not the whole arm.Possibly the body will move sideways, too.So, I don't think it's a matter of which one gets the vote, which one is better, but more a case of how much of each movement is involved in a particular passage, and that will vary piece to piece and player to player.

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  • 1
    The fact that we are humans, rather than machines means that there will be no one size fits all, reflecting so many facets of life.I believe that there is a grey area between the two, which players often use, rather than having a foot firmly in one camp.
    – Tim
    Jun 26, 2014 at 10:52
  • I can't understand why it's so important to differentiate absolutely, particularly for a beginner. Learners will not need to play as fast as to address this issue.
    – Tim
    Jun 26, 2014 at 11:29
  • Neither do I !! Just felt that this was the standpoint from where the question originated, particularly following yesterday's.
    – Tim
    Jun 26, 2014 at 11:53
  • If you don't want to build patterns that you will regret later - do not try to teach yourself !!Particularly in the nursery stages, it's not good !!Underrating practice is a total misquote,of no relevance.Purposeful and properly guided practice is even better !!Just because you think one method suits you better is no valid reason to follow it. Teachers often know better, so from the mindset you portray, I'd advocate waiting.
    – Tim
    Jun 26, 2014 at 14:24
  • Go for TO, as in the end it will give more speed. There we are, decision made.
    – Tim
    Jun 26, 2014 at 16:58
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To me TO is linked with more modern piano methods which rely on the use of gravity in order to limit the force and tension needed to play a note. When the thumb goes up and falls on the key, you have more power over the sound created and it costs you less energy. TU is more popular, though. And I'm sure some excellent pianists do fine with it. I'd say people tend to use whichever they were taught first.

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  • How do you play legato with TO?
    – Mark Lutton
    Jun 26, 2014 at 2:49
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    @JCPedroza I suspect (but cannot prove) that the downvote was more about the feel of the question than about the topic. Particularly, the term "pros and cons" sends up a red flag for me that the question might be looking for opinions/lists. Reading closely, it's clear that that is not the case here. But it may be good to edit and make the need for this information more apparent.
    – luser droog
    Jun 26, 2014 at 6:12
  • @MarkLutton - pedal.
    – Tim
    Jun 26, 2014 at 7:11
  • @JCPedroza Well since you didn't mention speed in your original message I replied thinking you were asking from a beginner/slow speeds point of view.
    – user10960
    Jun 26, 2014 at 9:47
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    @JCPedroza Well you obviously know you want to talk about speed because first thing you're doing on every answer is asking a comment about it. I think you need to calm down. This is the second time I'm trying to help you and I've never seen anything like this. If you don't like my answer don't accept it but don't try to tell me I should have done an entire overview of such a subject which is dividing the whole community. My belief anyway is that you learn this from a teacher who has solved these problems with one method or the other and is able to show you how he's doing it.
    – user10960
    Jun 26, 2014 at 11:01
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+100

Look here http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/1999/oct/21/on-playing-the-piano/ for an article by Charles Rosen on this subject. Unfortunately you can only read the first three paragraphs for free, but you find out a lot in those three paragraphs. You learn for instance that Dinu Lipatti once remarked, "You know, it has been at least ten years since I last crossed my thumb under the third finger."

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