Timeline for Why are there particular "rules" for using triads in second inversion but not for using seventh chords in second inversion?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
18 events
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| Sep 26, 2020 at 17:03 | answer | added | Albrecht Hügli | timeline score: 0 | |
| Sep 26, 2020 at 11:32 | answer | added | user71850 | timeline score: 1 | |
| Sep 26, 2020 at 0:00 | history | tweeted | twitter.com/StackMusic/status/1309643938500874240 | ||
| Sep 25, 2020 at 21:40 | comment | added | Aaron | @MichaelCurtis That's where I'm uncertain, and unfortunately I don't have a straightforward way to look that up. Nevertheless, the idea that the fourth in a V43 chord is "hidden" in an inner voice would still hold. | |
| Sep 25, 2020 at 21:35 | comment | added | Michael Curtis | @Aaron, won't the open position movement to a 4th/11th in the outer voices be considered a problem? | |
| Sep 25, 2020 at 21:30 | comment | added | Aaron |
My understanding, and you might correct me here, is that a root position IV chord in close position cannot proceed to a V64 because the bass is leaping into a fourth with an adjacent voice. This doesn't happen in the V43 case -- the adjacent voice is a third. Similarly, I believe -- but correct me if I'm wrong -- it's okay to move from an open position IV chord (say,F C A) to a V64 chord (D B G).
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| Sep 25, 2020 at 21:21 | comment | added | Richard | @Aaron I understand everything you're saying, but I'm afraid we're still missing each other regarding the point of my question. Imagine we're in C major and we're on a root-position IV chord. We can't leap in the bass down to a V64, because that's an illegal six-four. But we can leap down to a V43; why is that so? | |
| Sep 25, 2020 at 21:16 | comment | added | Michael Curtis | My first though was in agreement with your last sentence, that it would be more or less the same, except with the addition of handling of the seventh. | |
| Sep 25, 2020 at 21:14 | comment | added | Aaron | The dominant seventh chord can also resolve in multiple ways, it's just that we respell the pitches and relabel the chord. A dominant seventh chord, regardless of inversion, can function as a dominant, an augmented sixth, or a common-tone augmented sixth. But the "rules" are dominated by resolving the most dissonant interval (tritone, augmented sixth). In the triad case, the fourth is the most dissonant interval. | |
| Sep 25, 2020 at 21:00 | history | edited | Richard | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Sep 25, 2020 at 20:59 | comment | added | Richard | @Aaron Yes, but I'm asking less about their resolution and more about using them in a progression. A second-inversion triad, for instance, must be a passing, pedal, or cadential six-four. Why isn't this true for second-inversion seventh chords? | |
| Sep 25, 2020 at 20:57 | comment | added | Aaron | Rereading your title, there are rules for resolving seventh chords in second inversion. For a dominant seventh chord, the resolution of the tritone predominates: the leading tone resolves upward to the tonic, and the chordal seventh resolves downward to the scalar third. The root becomes the fifth of the chord of resolution, and the chordal fifth may resolve upward to the scalar third or downward to the root. | |
| Sep 25, 2020 at 20:54 | comment | added | Aaron | In my triad example, yes, fair enough. | |
| Sep 25, 2020 at 20:53 | answer | added | ttw | timeline score: 0 | |
| Sep 25, 2020 at 20:50 | comment | added | Richard | @Aaron But only one of those chords has a fourth with the bass, no? | |
| Sep 25, 2020 at 20:48 | comment | added | Aaron | Also, consider a G6-4 triad moving to a C6-3 triad. Both chords contain a fourth. In this case it's not about resolving the fourth but resolving the leading tone. | |
| Sep 25, 2020 at 20:44 | comment | added | Aaron | All seventh chords will have a major or minor second and/or a tritone, which is a much stronger dissonance than the only-sometimes-dissonant perfect fourth. Also, the fourth in a 6-4 triad is "exposed"; whereas, in a seventh chord there is an intervening consonant third to "soften" the fourth (and create the stronger dissonance of a second). | |
| Sep 25, 2020 at 20:35 | history | asked | Richard | CC BY-SA 4.0 |