Timeline for Why is C the base note of standard notation and keys?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
17 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Oct 4, 2020 at 18:16 | comment | added | phoog | My point is that the story about middle C being in the middle of the grand staff is just that: a story. A creation myth, if you will. It doesn't actually explain why the grand staff came into being. | |
| Oct 4, 2020 at 18:02 | comment | added | Randy Zeitman | @phoog "I don't suppose anyone noticed that middle C was in the middle of the grand staff until somewhat later." ... why would it take years to realize it's exactly as it was created? | |
| Oct 4, 2020 at 3:36 | comment | added | phoog | @Some_Guy knowing what the answer isn't reminds me of a story about a student in a yeshiva. I don't remember the story very well, but the student offered some outlandish interpretation of some biblical verse or something like that, and the rabbi said "no," and the student said, "but rabbi, you yourself said that there are (some large number) of possible interpretations," to which the rabbi replied "yes, but that isn't one of them." | |
| Oct 4, 2020 at 3:30 | comment | added | phoog | @RandyZeitman the so-called grand staff seems to have arisen in the middle or late 18th century in different regions. Before that, it was common to have a soprano clef for the right hand. But I don't know when it was given that name, and I don't suppose anyone noticed that middle C was in the middle of the grand staff until somewhat later. The reason for the switch probably had more to do with changing compositional style than with any desire for symmetry. Regardless, all of that happened centuries after the notes were named. | |
| Oct 4, 2020 at 2:16 | comment | added | Randy Zeitman | @phoog "The standard five-line staff appeared in about 1200 in polyphonic music. Some 16th-century keyboard music used staves of more lines. Modern keyboardists play from two combined staves: one for the right hand in treble clef, and one for the left in bass clef." britannica.com/art/staff So it seems that the grand staff defined C in the middle is part of modern music. | |
| Oct 3, 2020 at 18:08 | comment | added | phoog | @RandyZeitman whatever the correct answer is, it is to be found in the music theory of 1000 or more years ago. The minor scale is only about 400 years old. | |
| Oct 3, 2020 at 18:03 | comment | added | phoog | @awelotta I see. I would attribute the question's premise to confusion or misunderstanding rather than a claim. As far as I'm aware, the concept of scales that span an octave in general wasn't as firmly established, which is presumably why Guido's system uses overlapping hexachords. But since the Guidonian gamut starts with gamma, the note below A, the identification of A as a starting point (of whatever sort) must predate Guido. Subsequent to that point, there was a need for the note below, whether this was identified by Guido or by some predecessor. | |
| Oct 3, 2020 at 18:03 | comment | added | Some_Guy | I am uncertain. But, as other posters have pointed out in this thread, the nomenclature is much older the natural minor scale as we know it. Alas, it is easier to know what the answer isn't than what the answer is... If I find out, I'll post an answer. | |
| Oct 3, 2020 at 18:00 | comment | added | Randy Zeitman | @Some_Guy Ok, what's the right answer? | |
| Oct 3, 2020 at 17:25 | comment | added | Some_Guy | @RandyZeitman it's a perfect answer except for the minor deficit of it not being true | |
| Oct 3, 2020 at 15:35 | comment | added | awe lotta | @phoog The question writer? If they were to choose arbitrary starting notes, they would probably pick the root of a scale that already exists. The dorian and phrygian modes were used as church modes (more or less) before the aeolian mode, IIRC, so that's why I question that theorists would pick the minor mode arbitrarily, rather than another mode. | |
| Oct 2, 2020 at 23:45 | comment | added | Randy Zeitman | "it just happened that they considered a minor scale instead of a major one." There ya go... that's a perfect answer. You should get 60 upvotes. | |
| Oct 2, 2020 at 20:34 | comment | added | phoog | @awelotta who claims that the minor scale existed when the notes were named? | |
| Dec 30, 2019 at 3:38 | comment | added | awe lotta | I think the issue with this answer is that a) people obviously seem to disagree that the minor scale was even invented when the notes were named, and b) it doesn't explain who "they" is, so it's still fairly unsatisfying. Though it would probably make a sufficient explanation to a layman or beginner. | |
| Mar 29, 2019 at 16:30 | comment | added | phoog | The letter names have existed at least since Guido d'Arezzo, which was centuries before there was such a thing as a natural minor scale. Even then, by Guido's time, there was one note before A, called Γ (Greek gamma). That seems to imply that in some earlier system, A was the first note for some reason, but it's not clear to me when, why, or how. In Guido's system of hexachords, A was one of four notes that could be in any of the three hexachords; it could be la of the natural hexachord (c to a), mi of the soft hexachord (f to d), or re of the hard hexachord (g to e). | |
| Jul 10, 2017 at 10:13 | history | edited | Bogdan Alexandru | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
added 567 characters in body
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| Mar 8, 2017 at 21:21 | history | answered | Bogdan Alexandru | CC BY-SA 3.0 |