Timeline for Do orchestral string instruments need a pause before con sordino?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
18 events
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| Aug 23, 2021 at 16:24 | comment | added | Andy Bonner | A composer should note that a string section applying mutes can often be noisy. Rubber mutes can squeak quite a bit when applied, especially hurriedly. String players know to apply the mutes at the first chance they get, so if you give them a multi-measure rest while other sections are playing loudly, they'll apply the mute during the rest and the squeaking will be covered. On the other hand, if you have them do it during two beats in an oboe solo, the solo will be covered by the sound of a basketball court full of Nikes. | |
| May 14, 2017 at 11:19 | comment | added | Carl Witthoft | @FélixGagnon-Grenier I didn't intend to give the impression that switching mutes on or off was associated solely with dynamics, but rather a change in mood, theme, etc. Also, as you certainly know, different mutes can produce very different muted sounds -- not noticeable in an orchestra but certainly in chamber or solo music. | |
| May 12, 2017 at 21:26 | comment | added | leftaroundabout | @FélixGagnon-Grenier I wouldn't say it's so much about “doing more” but doing it differently. A mute perhaps allows the player to play with rather more force than they otherwise would, at any given dynamic level. I notice it most strongly when (cello) playing stuff in uncomfortably high positions, where my natural reflex is to “tip-toe” my way into the notes. A mute helps me a lot practising such stuff in a more confident manner. — OTOH: once, the first movement we did after a rehearsal break, I kept wondering what was wrong with my cello that made it feel so dull. Guess what it was? | |
| May 12, 2017 at 17:31 | comment | added | Félix Gagnon-Grenier | I agree, however, that sharp contrasts between ff and pp is not the intended use of mutes. That is indeed what dynamics are for. | |
| May 12, 2017 at 17:29 | comment | added | Félix Gagnon-Grenier | Interesting! I stand by my point however, yes, it is a very clear effect. Maybe beginner musicians, or other people that don't know about it won't realize. As a profesionnal orchestral player, I can assure you no musicians I know do not realize when a violin sound is muted or not. On the other hand, I totally do not feel any differently when using a mute, and actually that would be counter productive as the mute is already there doing its effect. Adding more is not the intended effect. A forte with mute is exactly that, a forte with mute. | |
| May 12, 2017 at 17:16 | comment | added | leftaroundabout | @FélixGagnon-Grenier it certainly changes the sound, but not in a clear but very subtle manner. Excellent for giving an entire piece an eerie or disillusioned mood, but not for effecting sharp contrasts within a movement. Indeed I believe a large part of the sordino's effect is how it affects how the musicians feel their own playing – it gives them a sort of “lost in the fog” / “running against walls” feeling, and that in turn affects what they put again into the music. | |
| May 12, 2017 at 17:07 | comment | added | Félix Gagnon-Grenier | @leftaroundabout "the small rubber ones that orchestral players generally use have very little effect on the sound". I disagree. The effect is indeed less impactful than brasses (which is true of pretty much anything: brasses are more impactful, period) but clearly changes the color of the sound. | |
| May 12, 2017 at 17:05 | comment | added | Félix Gagnon-Grenier | @CarlWitthoft Pathetique's fourth mvt begs to differ. ff con sordini is indeed a very precise effect ;) | |
| May 12, 2017 at 15:59 | comment | added | leftaroundabout | Fully agree with Carl Witthoft. Unlike with brass, the Sordino isn't that interesting for string instruments anyway: the small rubber ones that orchestral players generally use have very little effect on the sound – much less than the player can achieve with the bow alone – whereas the larger metal or wooden ones just give a pretty much “dead” sound which isn't very useful musically, only for practising. Usually, it's much more effective to specify sul tasto or dolce. For quick, clearly noticeable change you may contrast that with sul ponticello, or martellato etc.. | |
| May 12, 2017 at 11:19 | comment | added | Carl Witthoft | In general (I know, a dangerous way to start a comment), a switch from unmuted to muted or vice versa only makes sense if there's a significant change in theme or pace of the music, in which case you can pretty much guarantee there's time for the players to adjust the mute. If you simply want large dynamic change, that's what "ff subito pp" is for. Just as Beethoven :-) | |
| May 12, 2017 at 11:11 | history | tweeted | twitter.com/StackMusic/status/862988681841446912 | ||
| May 12, 2017 at 1:38 | vote | accept | Walter | ||
| May 12, 2017 at 1:38 | vote | accept | Walter | ||
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| May 12, 2017 at 1:38 | vote | accept | Walter | ||
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| May 12, 2017 at 1:06 | answer | added | Michael Seifert | timeline score: 25 | |
| May 12, 2017 at 0:53 | comment | added | Michael Seifert | A string instrument requires the use of both hands to play "fluidly & uninterruptedly", and very few string players have a third hand with which to apply a mute while doing this. | |
| May 12, 2017 at 0:41 | answer | added | user19146 | timeline score: 12 | |
| May 12, 2017 at 0:20 | history | asked | Walter | CC BY-SA 3.0 |