Timeline for Music with 3 Staves
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
17 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Aug 10, 2017 at 13:31 | comment | added | Basstickler | @alephzero - I won't disagree that there is a tendency to overanalyze every note on a page, however, in this particular instance, it is written on the music. Without knowing where the transcription comes from, I assume that it is the composer's intent, so it's not really us placing the label on the chord. We could seek an alternate analysis and say the whole measure is some sort of C chord. I'd also note that it's not incorrect to analyze in any manner, as long as the analysis has meaning. This analysis could easily express the notes that are taking place for a player to replicate. | |
| Aug 9, 2017 at 10:45 | comment | added | jdjazz | @Tim, yes I was thinking Gmaj11 with no 7 but I see the issue you mention. | |
| Aug 9, 2017 at 7:00 | comment | added | Tim | @jdjazz - Maybe not Gmaj11, as that implies F# and A as well. Gadd11 isn't bad as the basic name. | |
| Aug 9, 2017 at 6:59 | comment | added | Tim | That Gsus/C is iffy at best anyway. A guitarist would be expected to play it - after all, that's why the chord symbol's there. But - sus needs qualifying. Sus 2 or sus 4? Obvious from the dots, sus4, but really that should be written in the chord on top. With B,G,C,D it's going to be more Gadd11/B. | |
| Aug 9, 2017 at 6:55 | comment | added | Tim | @alephzero - it can't be C9/B, as C9 will have Bb in it, as well. Cmaj9 may work. | |
| Aug 9, 2017 at 3:46 | comment | added | jdjazz | Cmaj/B isn't that uncommon. The B resolves up to the root (C), which gives a really nice sound. I feel like I've heard this from Keith Jarrett, but I can't pinpoint which track. In this case, though, I doubt the mystery chord is Cmaj/B because I don't think it's resolving up to Cmaj given that it's already coming from Cmaj. My guess is that Amin is coming next, to complete the parallel 10th movement. I see the motivation for calling it Gsus/B (the mystery chord is replacing G/B). But I would label the harmony as Gmaj11/B, because I hear the same sound when I double the B an octave up. | |
| Aug 9, 2017 at 0:15 | comment | added | user19146 | Much of this seems to be based on one incorrect idea, which is that every note played must be "part of a chord." That leads both to over-complicated naming of chords and convoluted attempts to "analyse the harmony" accounting for every note. Non-chord tones have been used for a long as music has existed, I suspect. IMO the second half of bar 7 is just a C chord, with a non-chord B that happens to be in the bass. I would hesitate even to call it a C9 chord because of the D a the top of the voicing, without knowing what happens in bar 8. | |
| Aug 8, 2017 at 13:11 | comment | added | Basstickler | @alephzero - While I agree that a minor ninth can be used, I would argue that it has not been very present throughout the past 400 years, particularly in a harmonic context, ie, the minor 9 is a part of the chord. I'm sure it has appeared much more between the melody and the harmony, particularly in harmonic minor or playing the 4 against the I chord in major. Even in Jazz, where dissonance is much more acceptable, the minor 9 is really only to be used harmonically on a dominant functioning chord. In all my formal studies, particularly classical, the minor 9 is to be strongly avoided. | |
| Aug 8, 2017 at 13:06 | comment | added | Basstickler | @Fugu - Your comments make sense. I'd also be skeptical of such a chord and listen to the actual song to confirm that the transcription is accurate. | |
| Aug 8, 2017 at 0:30 | comment | added | Fugu | There's no minor ninth in that chord. The minor ninth is a particularly dissonant interval and should be employed with care, especially if the chord isn't dominant functioning. Your cliche progression also doesn't include a C natural in the dominant part of the progression, because including both a B and a C (with a B in the bass and in the key of C) is very dissonant, and is therefore not analogous. This is a very strange chord. | |
| Aug 7, 2017 at 23:59 | comment | added | user19146 | @Fugu Of course "these things are subjective", but you can find minor 9ths between the bass and treble everywhere in music for the last 400 years at least. The name of the chord might be "strange" I really can't see why you think it sounds strange. If the next chord is Am or Am7, the bass and treble progression C-C, B-D, A-E is just a musical cliché! On the very first page of a well known harmony textbook the author shows a chord (from a piece by Gounod, in 1859) voiced Eb C Db Eb F - and the fistful of notes C Db Eb F doesn't sound strange or even dissonant, in its musical context. | |
| Aug 7, 2017 at 20:53 | comment | added | Fugu | I don't think "play what's on the page" is bad advice; I was just following up on you calling the chord "very strange". It is so strange that I, personally, wouldn't play it, and would consult the source material myself to make sure what's actually being played there because it's exceedingly unlikely that it's a suspension with the resolve for the suspension in the bass, since this is very strange. | |
| Aug 7, 2017 at 20:51 | comment | added | Basstickler | Ultimately I was telling them what to play based on what is written in the music. Of course Gsus/B will be dissonant, particularly because of the minor 9, but that is what's written. With the notes written, I couldn't think of this as a C chord, since there is no 3, unless it were a Cmaj7sus4/B (add9), which seems to have the same strangeness about it. I say play what's on the page. | |
| Aug 7, 2017 at 20:41 | comment | added | Fugu | The way it's written there's a minor ninth between the B and the C, which will always exist in a chord spelled Gsus/B. This minor ninth, particularly in the key of C, is a combination of extremely dissonant and function-muddling since you are simultaneously playing the suspension from the dominant chord and the note that the suspension resolves to. Ultimately these things are subjective, but "very strange" is an accurate way to characterize this chord, without question. | |
| Aug 7, 2017 at 20:32 | comment | added | user19146 | @Fugu What? The written notes are a perfectly "nice-sounding thing". I suspect the problem is that Gsus/B is a silly name for the chord, though without seeing the next bar that is just a guess. C9/B might be a more sensible name for it - or even C11/B if the F in the vocal part is considered as belonging to the chord. The voice leading between the voice part and the bass (three consecutive 5ths A-E, F-C, C-G followed by a diminished 5th B-F) isn't "nice" though! | |
| Aug 7, 2017 at 20:28 | comment | added | Fugu | Don't play Gsus/B. I'm not sure there's any context in which that would be a nice-sounding thing. | |
| Aug 7, 2017 at 20:14 | history | answered | Basstickler | CC BY-SA 3.0 |