Timeline for Is there a theoretical explanation for a change of a major7 to minor7 of the same root in jazz?
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| Jun 17, 2020 at 8:26 | history | edited | CommunityBot |
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| Apr 6, 2020 at 21:39 | comment | added | jdjazz | @MattL., I agree 100% with everything you and many others have said. RE: ii-V's leading to the tonic, maybe there are 3 if we count Bm-E7-EbΔ. | |
| Apr 6, 2020 at 21:27 | comment | added | jdjazz | Laurence, you acknowledged yourself that there's a difference when you wrote "it COULD have been Am7 - D7. A bit more 'outside', but quite possible." Why does one sound more outside? Theory can explain why Am-D7 sounds more outside than Abm-Db7--it can explain why Abm-Db7 leads to the tonic in a more natural sounding way. Those explanations are valuable for understanding the genre and creating/working within it. Theory offers the language for distinguishing between the differences you identify in how it sounds. | |
| Apr 6, 2020 at 16:02 | comment | added | Phemelo Khetho | @MMazzon the reason why I picked "Misty" over "Tune Up" is because it is more popular and it has been covered a lot by many artists. There are many other jazz standards that I could have used as examples of major to minor change using the same root. | |
| Apr 6, 2020 at 15:14 | comment | added | MMazzon | I upvoted appreciating the point about not forcibly imposing theoretical explanations everywhere. I also think that Tune Up would have made a much better example than Misty in this case. | |
| Apr 6, 2020 at 12:20 | comment | added | Laurence | You're still playing chords. Just linear rather than vertical. | |
| Apr 6, 2020 at 12:18 | comment | added | piiperi Reinstate Monica | You can create a modal mixture even with single notes without playing any actual chords. Play notes from “outside” and the harmonic context changes. | |
| Apr 6, 2020 at 12:02 | comment | added | Richard | @LaurencePayne Modal interchange is a very specific subset of modifying a chord. Which is why this clarity is important: just saying "modifying a chord" opens up possibilities far beyond the realm of mode mixture. | |
| Apr 6, 2020 at 12:00 | comment | added | Laurence | @Richard - isn't 'Modal interchange' just another way of saying 'modifying a chord'? | |
| Apr 6, 2020 at 11:58 | history | edited | Laurence | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Apr 5, 2020 at 14:45 | comment | added | Richard | Yes, "modal interchange" does tell us something extra, because it tells us a specific detail of this style. If someone were to come along and try to write something in the style of "Misty," modal interchange may get them there, and just "modifying a chord" likely won't. Imagine you sat down in a writing class and the instructor said "Eh, grammar is just theory. Just put whatever letters you like right next to each other...it's your artistic decision!" That's hardly an answer, don't you think? | |
| Apr 5, 2020 at 13:40 | comment | added | Matt L. | @LaurencePayne: Yes I have, but this has no bearing on our answers, because nobody would doubt that you can use any II-V to go anywhere at any point in a song. The point is, which IIm7-V7 can be used to lead to the tonic? And there are only 2 reasonable choices. In the key of Eb major, Abm7-Db7 is one of them. And there's a good reason why it works, unlike Am7-D7 or most others. | |
| Apr 5, 2020 at 13:37 | comment | added | Matt L. | @PhemeloKhetho: Of course a 2-5-1 is a very strong progression, nobody would doubt that. But here it is specifically about a 2-5 resolving to the tonic of the song. And apart from the actual 2-5 (Fm7-Bb7), the only other frequently occurring option is Abm7-Db7, for the reason explained in my answer. | |
| Apr 5, 2020 at 13:14 | comment | added | Phemelo Khetho | @LaurencePayne I have been noodling around, using my ear and trying this out; "ii7 - V7 - I is a very strong progression. You can jump to almost ANY m7 chord"; You are right! I didn't know it but it works outright | |
| Apr 5, 2020 at 12:56 | history | edited | Laurence | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Apr 5, 2020 at 12:28 | comment | added | Laurence | @Matt L. Have you noticed what harmonic route 'Misty' actually DOES take in the middle 8? | |
| Apr 5, 2020 at 12:26 | history | edited | Laurence | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Apr 5, 2020 at 1:15 | history | edited | Laurence | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Apr 5, 2020 at 1:13 | comment | added | Laurence | Well, like so many musical things it IS just an artistic decision! Theory can describe it, but theory doesn't command or predict it. It COULD have been Am7 - D7. A bit more 'outside', but quite possible. It would have led to a temporary tonic of G or Gm. See my extended answer above. | |
| Apr 5, 2020 at 1:10 | history | edited | Laurence | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Apr 4, 2020 at 21:18 | comment | added | Phemelo Khetho | I didn't downvote you either. Wish you could beef up your answer and land it with a solid theoretical explanation. As it stands now, it sounds more like the Xmaj7 to Xm7 change is just an artistic license. | |
| Apr 4, 2020 at 20:27 | comment | added | piiperi Reinstate Monica | I didn't downvote, but there's a chance for an interesting discussion. "Does 'Modal Interchange' tell you anything extra?" Yes. When that Abm7 chord kicks in, to my ears, self-evidently the D note becomes Db automatically, even if the next chord wasn't a Db7. "Modal interchange" is a more suitable word for describing the change of situation than just saying that one single chord was modified. I mean, nobody would try to solo a strong D natural on the Abm7 chord? | |
| Apr 4, 2020 at 17:06 | comment | added | Matt L. | I didn't downvote your answer but if I understand your argument correctly, then you're saying that the Abm7-Db7 combination might as well have been any other II-V progression. This is really not the case, and there's a good reason that it is Abm7-Db7, and not (for instance) Am7-D7. | |
| Apr 4, 2020 at 16:35 | history | answered | Laurence | CC BY-SA 4.0 |