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What do those double dots mean ?

Do they apply to the whole chord ? Or just the right hand chord or just the top D ? Does it have a musical meaning or interpretative meaning or both ? How is it different from staccato ?

in Semaine grasse (5th page of the movement, 2nd line or bars 57,58), Trois mouvements de Petrouchka, Stravinsky:

line with double dots

To my knowledge there is only one edition (I do not count localisation as an edition).

In the original, those bars correspond to the 95 or bars 3,4 in the following extract:

original score

The transcription (which is not a transcription, as stated by Stravinsky), has changed the text slightly.

5
  • 1
    Oh great, now I'm wondering whether those dots merely emphasize that those are 16th notes in the tremolo, the dots mean that those are all played staccato, or I am supposed to play 2 of each chord in the tremolo in a row (so the tremolo goes A-A-G-G instead of A-G-A-G).
    – Dekkadeci
    Dec 30, 2021 at 15:43
  • 1
    @Aaron The original and 3 movements do not match since there are many cuts, simplifications, and addendi. It's mm 57,58
    – Soleil
    Dec 30, 2021 at 17:04
  • 1
    Closely related question if not even duplicate.
    – guidot
    Dec 30, 2021 at 20:14
  • 1
    @guidot - I'd say that's only a closely related question since such dots for a single tremolo beam are a lot less confusing than those for a double tremolo.
    – Dekkadeci
    Dec 30, 2021 at 21:28
  • @guidot dup for only one part of my questions, the case is more complicated here.
    – Soleil
    Dec 30, 2021 at 21:29

4 Answers 4

10

I think this is a not very good shorthand for

enter image description here

1
  • 1
    This works as a transcription of the flute and clarinet parts (remembering to transpose the clarinet). Note that I am not the Peter who answered the question.
    – Peter
    Dec 31, 2021 at 5:17
4

The notation is very ambiguous, but it's most likely that something like this is intended:

enter image description here

This preserves the legato tremolo of the original.

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  • Do you mean the staccato is only for the D ?
    – Soleil
    Dec 30, 2021 at 19:57
  • @Soleil Yes. I think that's the most likely interpretation, and it makes the most musical sense.
    – PiedPiper
    Dec 30, 2021 at 20:00
  • This is probably the best answer given the notation and the orchestral context, but is hell to play.
    – Peter
    Jan 3 at 10:59
  • @Peter Stravinsky gives a tempo of half-note=69. It's hard enough to play those repeated notes at all, let alone make them staccato.
    – PiedPiper
    Jan 3 at 18:16
  • @PiedPiper I'd not looked for the metronome mark in the orchestral score (I don't have a copy of the piano version - is it the same?). I take your point.
    – Peter
    Jan 5 at 11:03
3

The double dots indicate that each chord should be played twice within the tremolo (see below). Stravinsky is attempting to incorporate both the smooth tremolos in the woodwinds with the pizzicato in the violins. Note that the violins play each pitch (chord) twice before changing.

X: 1
T: Petrouchka tremolos
K: F
M: 6/4
L: 1/16
([Acfa]d[Acfa]d) .[Acd].[Acd].[GBd].[GBd] ([Acfa]d[Acfa]d) .[Acd].[Acd].[GBd].[GBd] ([Acfa]d[Acfa]d) .[Acd].[Acd].[GBd].[GBd] |
18
  • But we have that also without the double dot, isn't it a staccato for each "play" of the chord ?
    – Soleil
    Dec 30, 2021 at 17:38
  • @Aaron We seem to have almost coincided with the same answer!
    – Peter
    Dec 30, 2021 at 17:43
  • @Soleil Without the dots, you wouldn't play it so staccato. As a rule of thumb, without the dots each note is about 3/4 the length of the notated value, with the dots it's about 1/2. Adjust to fit the tempo of the piece, the acoustic of the hall, the responsiveness of the piano and the flexibility of your wrist.
    – Peter
    Dec 30, 2021 at 17:45
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    If this is what's intended, then the tremolo marking would be unnecessary.
    – PiedPiper
    Dec 30, 2021 at 18:02
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    Peter's answer comes closer to the original and preserves the tremolo.
    – PiedPiper
    Dec 30, 2021 at 18:09
1

To add some "weight" to the answers that say this means each note is played twice, here's an example from a G&S score. You can see they explicitly wrote in the "slash" so you know there are two notes to be played per written flag.
I agree that the OP's example is already pretty crowded, so sticking in the slashes is pretty much redundant with the tremolo markings.

enter image description here

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