# What is the rhythmic notation for 5/8 the duration of a whole note?

Assume that the whole note time equals 8. Then a note which time equals 3 will be written as 1/4 note and dot. How you write down a note that time is equal 5/8 of a whole note?

• Hi Édouard. Thanks for correcting this. as I'm completely beginner I still struggle even with basic terminology etc Commented Feb 20, 2014 at 10:03

As you have said, you have to use a tie for this. You can tie any combination of notes that make up 5/8ths.

However, it's also true that you can (and should) give a visual indicator of how you want the notes grouped metrically by which ties you use for the longer values. For example, if you accent the first and third 8th notes (very common in 5/8 time), use a quarter tied to a dotted quarter. If you accent the first and fourth 8th notes, use a dotted quarter tied to a quarter. And so on.

I think I've figured this out So to write such a note one would have to use a tie
Write a 1/2 note and 1/8 note and tie them together

• This is correct, but understand that this would only be true for a duration starting at the beginning of a measure of 4/4 time. In other time signatures or positions in the measure, the same duration of 5 eighth notes may be notated differently. Commented Feb 20, 2014 at 1:18
• Thanks Yes I think I'm starting to understand this better now. Reading more about ties and what to do if a note last longer then a measure. Also looking at Michael Scott Cuthbert suggestion about tuplets Commented Feb 20, 2014 at 10:48
• @NReilingh in fact this is not correct. The components of the tied note should reflect the meter, so it should either be a dotted quarter tied to a quarter or vice versa, depending on how the meter is organized. Commented Mar 14 at 11:59
• @phoog q.-q and q-q. are not the only options here, and depending on where in the measure the figure starts the specific rhythm could be completely different. h-e is perfectly acceptable at the beginning of a 4/4, as I said in my comment. Commented Mar 15 at 13:00
• @NReilingh you're right, there will be cases where q.-q and q-q. are maybe even not the best options. (Nice notation, by the way!) But for a whole bar in 5/8 meter, as in the example here, it's unlikely that h-e would be preferable. Commented Mar 16 at 15:28

You were on the right track, but because 5/8 is an asymmetrical meter, you have to group the tie by smaller groups of the meter. In an asymmetrical meter the notes in a measure are grouped in smaller groups of two or three. The possible grouping for 5/8 are 2 eighth notes + 3 eighth notes and 3 eighth notes + 2 eighth notes. When you tie notes together, you have to abide by the groupings so the tie would be expressed as a quarter note tied to a dotted quarter note or a dotted quarter note tied to a quarter note depending on how the song groups the eighth notes.

• The author isn't talking about 5/8 meter, he is just talking about 5 eigth notes, i.e. "5/8ths of a whole note." Though I totally agree that the rhythm should fit the metrical beats. Commented Dec 8, 2019 at 0:36
• @awelotta but the author answered the question with an example in 5/8. Commented Mar 14 at 12:00

There's no standard way to notate this duration without ties (as OP suggests). George Crumb uses the notation of a half note with a dot on both sides of the note for the duration (see: ).

You could also of course write a whole note with the tuplet [8:5] above it (any rational number duration can be written as a single note with the appropriate tuplet).

It is possible to write with standard notation a rest worth 5/8ths of a whole note: just write a whole rest in a measure of 5/8. :-)

• I can't imagine why GC would choose to write a mystifying and nonstandard notatation when tied half+eighth is immediately obvious to all genres of music. Commented Feb 20, 2014 at 12:40
• Crumb wanted to innovate on notation and believed (so I gather) that by making a new note value that he hoped would become standard, more people would begin to use quintuple meter and consider it as fundamental to music as duple and triple meter. His notation wasn't a success, but music history is filled with similar examples, some of which worked and we now consider obvious (stem direction according to height), some were standard but disappeared later (custodes telling you the first note of the next line) and many failed. Commented Feb 20, 2014 at 17:19
• There is also a notation by Ian Ring (if I recall correctly) that uses a five pointed star where the dot to notate the duration of 5 eighth notes. Commented Dec 8, 2019 at 0:37
• Also, it's not terribly confusing, in my opinion. If the rhythm is very prominent, and it only takes the "invention" of one symbol, then the composer could just define it in the performance notes / directions, or at the top of the score. Commented Dec 8, 2019 at 16:02

Without ties a 5/8 note or rest is a double dotted triplet half note.

• A triplet half note is 4/12 of a whole note. Double-dotting it gives you 7/12 of a whole note, which is not the same as 5/8. Commented Dec 7, 2019 at 17:09
• Moreover, a "triplet note" works only if there is a whole tripleted group. Which might not be true in the situation the OP was thinking of. Commented Dec 15, 2019 at 8:05
• @PiedPiper but a triply dotted triplet half note is 15/24 of a whole note, which is 5/8 of a whole note: music.stackexchange.com/a/135265/2257 Commented Mar 16 at 15:33