Saxophone sometimes out of tune by nearly a fourth

Question

Our band's saxophonist has a bizzare intermittent fault with his soprano sax (so normally uses his tenor or alto sax).

Sometimes it's fine and sings beautifully, but other times it'll be out of tune by between a major third and a fourth. It's a Bb instrument, so when he plays C we should hear Bb but we were hearing something between Eb and E.

Normally he tunes by pushing the mouthpiece further on or off, but this is beyond the range he can achieve that way.

We had a close look at all the keys along the sax, and couldn't see anything that was blocked or anything out of place.

We'd like to fix this beautiful instrument (rather than work around the problem by tuning to Eb), but can't think what to try next.

What are the possible causes for it to go so far out of tune?

Answer 1

Is this a school band? As a band director, you should feel comfortable triaging each instrument yourself. Were I in this situation, I would go fetch my own soprano sax mouthpiece, take the instrument, and either verify it is working correctly or demonstrate the correct embouchure.

Those are really the only two possibilities: either there's a major mechanical flaw, or the player's embouchure is really poor. When you visually inspect the instrument, make sure you pay attention to the cork on the instrument neck (where the mouthpiece attaches), watching out for leaks; check the mouthpiece itself for chips or reed issues (perhaps have the player try a different mouthpiece and reed).

If the instrument is in tune above a certain note, and out of tune below; you should be able to isolate that note as the location on the instrument where there's a mechanical issue. Due to the way saxophones work, a problem at the bell end of the instrument is only going to affect one or two notes, while one at the mouthpiece end is going to affect all of them. A problem near the middle G key is going to affect the lower notes, but the ones above (until you reach the octave key) should be fine.

INCIDENTALLY: The octave key is one of the first places you should look for problems like this. Make sure you know how the octave key is supposed to work, and realize that there are actually two small pads in different locations that are actuated by the octave key based on whether the G key is pressed or not. One of these keys effects an interval of a 5th, so if that hole is clogged (it's very small), or the pad is not closing properly, it may be the source of your issue.

If everything is in full working order, then my guess is that the player is just not forming an embouchure correctly, and it is causing the instrument to be out of tune.

Answer 2

How old is the instrument? A440 was only adopted in 1939 and although older instruments can play in tune to an ensemble tuned to A440, or in actual practice in most high schools, Bb, 233 hz, the fact is that they can sound "pitchy".

Correcting this is a bit more complicated than just tuning the instrument with the lead pipe. You have to have ears and skill...and an embouchure.

If you listen to music in older movies that often had saxophone orchestras there is a soft character to the sound....a lot of the character of that timbre comes from the fact that it was impossible to tune that many sax's made by various manufactures in different countries and different dates perfectly. Some manufacturers actually built instruments simultaneously with different pitch standards because of the international market. There is a slight harmonic distortion that is perceived as fuzzy. Listen to any of the original Our Gang soundtracks and you will hear what I am describing. These were recorded well after 1939 by the way so this issue was persistent. I actually like the sound quite a bit!

Some older manufacturers such as Conn actually encoded which pitch system was used in their serial numbers as this was a long running controversy. Conn used H for high pitch meaning a 457hz "A"or L for Low pitch for a 440hz "A". During that latter part of the 18th century, "A" might have been as low as 400hz or as high as 450...Beethoven's tuning fork was 455.5hz!

Just some food for thought, If the instrument in question is newer then ignore all of the above and defer to previous comments.

Cheers!

Answer 3

Actually, Unless the horn has specific markings on it that explicitly says that it's a Bb sax, my suspicion is that the horn is an Eb Soprano or Sopranino sax.

You should run the make/model and into a search engine for the model's details. (The serial number will give you at least an indication of the model year, but sometimes they can act like a car's VIN number, describing different features.)

Answer 4

I see three possibilities, some of which have been mentioned here before:

1. Some of the pads leak air - bring it to a professional to have it checked - pads don't last forever, so that's an explanation why it used to work and then started going bad. It's also possible that different pitches produce a problem if a rarely used pad is leaking that is used for only a few specific tunes.
2. Embouchure - your player can experiment with slightly harder reeds that tend to make it harder to modulate the sound (on my clarinet in some ranges and using a soft reed, I can modulate by at least a 5th just using my mouth).
3. Water/Spit - especially after I haven't practiced for a while, I produce a lot more water/spit in my instrument that tends to cause issues with some of the pads, e.g. bubbles. There's not that much you can do about that other than have lots of water absorbing paper along (on my clarinet, I use cigarette paper) and clean the instrument between songs if possible, and do lots of embouchure exercises.

Your answer has got to be one of these three.