C♭13 Contains C, E, G, B♭, D, F, A♭.

Cm♭13 Contains C, E♭, G, B♭, D, F, A♭.

I know that

Why is there not any of those?

closed as unclear what you're asking by Some_Guy, David Bowling, Dom Dec 20 '18 at 15:54

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  • Because the guitar player will yell at you that it's actually a #5. No, seriously, I've seen jazz guys get into over this. – LSM07 Oct 22 '18 at 14:44
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    It's really unclear to me what you are asking here. You define a flat 13 chord and then ask why they do not exist - are you asking why they aren't used more? If not, it seems to me as if you are contradicting yourself in the question, as since you can explain what it is, then it does, clearly, exist (even if there are other terms for it enharmonically) – CoedRhyfelwr Oct 22 '18 at 14:48
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    In case the other comments and answers aren't clear about this, the reason why you're getting the response (and the downvotes, I expect) is because there is a ♭13 chord. Or perhaps it's more accurate to say there are ♭13 chords. – Todd Wilcox Oct 22 '18 at 19:45
  • @LSM07 ok but it is almost always a sharp 5 though ;) – Some_Guy Dec 19 '18 at 23:31
  • In all seriousness, I think we should close this question until OP clarifies what he/she means by it. "Why is there not any of those" is very confusing, it's like saying: "Why doesn't the letter G exist?" – Some_Guy Dec 19 '18 at 23:35

Just a minute on that naming: I'd call the chord you spelled out "C11♭13" and "Cm11♭13" to imply the extensions. I'd in fact argue that those two chords do exist, and they're no weirder than any other 13th chords I've heard. One can find the latter on the vi in a major key.

Technically, "C♭13" means C♭-E♭-G♭-B♭♭-D♭-F♭-A♭, or C♭ dominant 13th, enharmonic to B13. C11♭13 is unambiguous.

  • I think C(♭13) is unambiguous too. And typsetting on a score can render it unambiguous too. That said, chords labeled as "♭13" are almost always actually #5 chords – Some_Guy Dec 19 '18 at 23:35
  • @Some_Guy ♯5 vs ♭13 is a topic for another day... Also, C(♭13) is recognised to be C-E-G-A♭ (the parentheses function as "add", as opposed to being representative of the 7th, 9th, and 11th as well). – user45266 Dec 20 '18 at 23:17

The 13th note of C minor is Ab. So flattening the 13th would bring it down to Abb, aka G. That would fit nicely, as G is P5 of C minor.

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    13ths are named as major 13ths unless otherwise stated, right? Major 13th of C is A, ♭13 is A♭. – user45266 Oct 22 '18 at 23:32

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