Questions tagged [ornaments]

For questions about using ornaments for music or any other general questions about ornaments. Ornaments or embellishments are musical flourishes that are not necessary to carry the overall line of the melody (or harmony), but serve instead to decorate or "ornament" that line. Examples of ornaments include the mordent, turn and trill.

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What is this vocal ornament called?

There is a vocal technique used in this audio clip that sounds Arabic and melismatic on the lyric “smile”. The notes go up from G3 to G#3 and back to G3 again. Some say it is a mordent but I think the ...
Sana's user avatar
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1 vote
1 answer
108 views

how to read and play a turn in music when it is inbetween 2 notes?

for example in this Mozart piece, there is a turn in bar 7, and in bar 10 how are you suppose to play these turns rhythmically? how else could the notes be notated?
jackseven's user avatar
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14 votes
1 answer
533 views

Dot in front of a mordent

I am singing Messe de Minuit pour Noël by Marc-Antoine Charpentier and stumbled on some notation unknown to me. There are quite a few mordents in the piece and some of them are denoted with a ...
schtandard's user avatar
8 votes
1 answer
284 views

Pile up of ornaments in J.S.Bach's BWV 935

These are bars 19-23 in J.S. Bach's BWV 935, from the Sechs kleine Präludien für Anfänger auf dem Klavier: Can anyone spell out for me what should be played for that E in bar 23 adorned with a grace ...
Mariano Suárez-Álvarez's user avatar
4 votes
1 answer
433 views

Playing gruppetto with accidentals

I am playing the Chopin's Prélude in E minor, Op. 28 No. 4, and I wonder how I should play the following gruppetto. Notice that the A note is already sharp. Much appreciate your explanations!
Juan Chô's user avatar
  • 321
11 votes
2 answers
481 views

Accidentals and ornaments

These are the first two bars of J. S. Bach's Fughetta in c-moll (BWV 961) as edited by Henle. Does the second trillo in the second bar start on B flat, so that it cancels the natural on the previous ...
Mariano Suárez-Álvarez's user avatar
8 votes
1 answer
1k views

What does this flat symbol over a turn mean?

I think it means for the starting note to be lowered one semitone, but I'm not sure.
Ian Miller's user avatar
0 votes
1 answer
165 views

Creative Ideas for Teaching Musical Ornaments to Kids [closed]

I am a music teacher planning to introduce the concept of musical ornaments to a group of young children. I want to make this educational experience engaging and fun for them, and I'm seeking creative ...
Fernando V's user avatar
2 votes
1 answer
142 views

Appoggiaturas not playing in Noteflight audio

I have arranged Für Elise in Noteflight with two 16th note appoggiaturas circled in red. I expect them to play in the audio but they don't (unlike acciaccaturas which do play). The bar with the ...
Vighnesh's user avatar
  • 339
4 votes
1 answer
195 views

Ornaments in baroque music: should be avoided in some cases?

In baroque music, often the performers add ornaments (or even more complex variations) to the written notes, mostly during a repeat. It's very common to hear them on Bach, Vivaldi, Marcello, etc... ...
Mark's user avatar
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2 votes
1 answer
102 views

Are grace note pairs and a mordent played differently? [duplicate]

When I play the mordent and the graces notes highlighted, they sound the same. Should they be approached differently? Why would they be notated differently?
Ryan's user avatar
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4 votes
2 answers
111 views

Bach BWV 817: how do you realize this ornament, bars 10, 18 [duplicate]

How do you realize this ornament with the big tailhook at the end? The editorial contains a cheat sheet but not this particular ornament. Bach BWV 817 Sarabande (Henle): bars 10, 18
Anthony Alba's user avatar
1 vote
2 answers
197 views

Is there a notation for a short rest of undetermined length; the rest equivalent of a grace note?

Here's the phrase I'm working on, a nice chord progression from the finale of a symphony movement (Dopper 7 mov. 1) that I'm arranging for solo piano. So the B♭ trill in the right hand exists for ...
KeizerHarm's user avatar
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1 vote
3 answers
254 views

Multiple grace note snare drum ornament

I am looking at Sergei Prokofiev's Dance of the Knights (from the Romeo & Juliet ballet: Act I, Scene 2, No. 13) . In mm. 9–10 (from rehearsal mark [77]) and also a few times later in the piece ...
Elements In Space's user avatar
3 votes
1 answer
102 views

How do I play a crossed note before a hammer-on?

The tab below is from Stop this Train - John Mayer How am I suppose to play the part circled in red? Also what is the correct name for this notation?
jun's user avatar
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10 votes
2 answers
246 views

Bach BWV 812 Menuet I: do(can) ornaments presage the accidental?

In Bach BWV 812 Menuet I bar 6 we have a trill preceding an accidental — the thrust of the bar is to B(natural), therefore in the preceding trill do(would) you trill on B(natural)-A or B(flat)-A? ...
Anthony Alba's user avatar
5 votes
1 answer
439 views

How do you distinguish an upper mordent from a trill?

I recently learned of the upper mordent. (first ornament in this image from Wikipedia) To me, it looks identical to the trill from the table of ornaments I'm familiar with: When encountering this ...
JETM's user avatar
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3 votes
1 answer
146 views

What's this flat squiggly line below the notes at the end of this clarinet jazz solo?

This is from cuphead. Youtube link here: It kind of sounds like vibrato.
SlightyBurntPorkChop's user avatar
6 votes
1 answer
336 views

What is the best way to notate/convey this ornament?

I'm currently writing a piece of music (solo piano) which has a certain ornament. This is the way that I want it to be played: It would be really nice if I could notate it something like the ...
Josh's user avatar
  • 63
7 votes
1 answer
624 views

Bach French Suite BWV 816: Allemande - what is the ornament with the swoosh at the end?

I am using this reference for ornamentation from the Foreword of J.S. Bach 16 well-known original pieces (Henle). The ornament in bar 9 looks like "idem" but the swoosh comes at the end (...
Anthony Alba's user avatar
6 votes
2 answers
740 views

Mozart K.494: How do you play this (turn inside a tie)?

Mozart K.494 b.178 near the end of the movement. (This is the 3rd movement of the sonata K.533/K.494) This is in bass clef BTW. This image is the Bärenreiter edition. Henle puts only the turn option. ...
Anthony Alba's user avatar
1 vote
0 answers
129 views

How to play a turn? [closed]

What does the turn notation symbol mean to play rhythmically? what if it is not on the note but in between 2 notes? thanks
foxrox's user avatar
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6 votes
1 answer
2k views

What is the difference between a mordent and turn?

I've tried Googling the difference between a turn and mordent, but all the answers are really vague. I also couldn't find any helpful images that explain to me. I'm really confused right now. Turns ...
user87626's user avatar
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8 votes
1 answer
1k views

How do I notate alternating quickly between two notes an octave away from each other?

I'm vaguely sure that an ornament exists for this but I'm not sure which one it is. I'm a music theory beginner, so pardon me if there's a simple answer. Basically, I want to alternate quickly between ...
Duck King III's user avatar
5 votes
3 answers
199 views

Strange "less than" accent or ornament in Sullivan's "The Mikado" score

In the old Kalmus handwritten conductor's score for The Mikado, a few notes in the overture had a unfamiliar notation. For example, here's Measure 50 from the oboe part (other instruments have ...
David H's user avatar
  • 365
4 votes
2 answers
192 views

Why are accented passing tones not figured but suspensions are?

If 4-3 happens as a suspension and it is figured then why not also figure an accented passing tone 4-3?
user avatar
9 votes
2 answers
489 views

Is there a word for when you scoop to the same note?

I'm a vocalist who's done different kinds of ensembles over the years, and I often have this instinct to scoop to (rearticulate? emphasize?) a repeated note if the other voices change to make a ...
Jacob's user avatar
  • 233
5 votes
1 answer
221 views

Shift trill symbol horizontally in Lilypond

I'm rewriting (with Lilypond) an old copy of Händel's Allemande HWV 437 and I can not recreate the orignial position of the trill symbol. In the original the ornament begins with the note 'b', yet ...
Peder's user avatar
  • 507
1 vote
1 answer
127 views

I don't know how to deal with the trills in Bach's Fugue in D Minor

(Included from comment: the fugue is from well-tempered clavier, vol. 1 BWV 851) All research I do gives me a different answer. One example said to use the auxiliary note first - more in keeping with ...
Mary Scriven's user avatar
2 votes
3 answers
508 views

Bach Invention 2 Bar 13 overlapping keys for both hands while playing mordent

I know there are related previous discussions (I had asked one here, which , interestingly, was also a Bar "13"), but they concerned one individual key overlap. In this case, left hand plays ...
GrandAdagio's user avatar
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6 votes
3 answers
2k views

Grace notes with slash

What exactly does the slash mean as opposed to the other? And if you have a group of grace notes together, do you just slash the first one?
Jack999's user avatar
  • 233
6 votes
2 answers
1k views

Trill notation with a wavy line

There are 2 trill notations: 'tr' and 'tr' followed by a wavy line. What exactly is the difference and when is one used over the other?
Jack999's user avatar
  • 233
7 votes
2 answers
782 views

Timing of grace notes in Chopin's Waltz in a minor

Consider the following: (Chopin At the Piano - Verlag) Should the grace notes be played before the beat or on the beat? I am reading a book on music theory, and it says: (The AB Guide to Music ...
Darren's user avatar
  • 453
4 votes
1 answer
383 views

How did Glenn Gould know, in 1955, the proper ornamentation for Bach's "Goldberg Variations"?

This question has its origin in Why does the Open Goldberg score have a G rather than A in bar 9 of variation 25?. See that Q&A for background information. At what time, and on what basis, was ...
Aaron's user avatar
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4 votes
1 answer
635 views

Beethoven Sonata Op. 49 No. 2 Bar 12 trill

I just started learning this piece on my own. I played the trill (red circle) as A G F# G (So with the context it's G AGF#G A. Is it correct? When I listen to the videos played by professionals on ...
GrandAdagio's user avatar
  • 1,683
2 votes
4 answers
164 views

What kind of non-chord tone dissonance is this?

What is the correct term for this type of non-chord tone? I really like the sound of it and since I see it a lot I was wondering if an "official" name exists for it. It is not a suspension ...
user avatar
4 votes
1 answer
781 views

What are the ornaments in the western music and their corresponding ornaments in Indian music?

I am learning to play the different ornaments in western music (Trill, Tremolo, Turn, Appoggiatura, Acciaccatura, Glissando, Slide). I also want to know which are the corresponding ornaments in Indian ...
Bodhi's user avatar
  • 171
3 votes
3 answers
199 views

Baroque ornamentation is not consistent across editions of the same piece

Here are two versions of the Quodlibet from Bach's Goldberg Variations. As you can see in the attachments, the ornaments and the recommendations as to how to play them are exactly opposite. One shows ...
Thomas Mathew David Loeff's user avatar
6 votes
1 answer
561 views

ornamentation in keyboard music of William Byrd

I'm working through some tunes by Byrd, and am wondering about the ornamentation, the two diagonal slashes through the note stem. As far as I can tell, we don't actually know what the composers of ...
Kevin G.'s user avatar
  • 437
9 votes
1 answer
810 views

Obscure markings in BWV 814 I. Allemande, Bach, Henle edition

I am looking at Bach's French Suite #3, BWV 814, Allemande, and the ornamentation typesetting is confusing me. I am familiar with mordant vs. trill, and the standard description of ornaments for Bach. ...
Jonathan Protzenko's user avatar
0 votes
2 answers
464 views

I have a question about how to count these notes

How do I count the notes circled in white?
roro's user avatar
  • 9
5 votes
2 answers
1k views

Different versions of mordents in Bach Invention No. 1 In C Major, BWV 772

I was playing Bach Invention 1 when my sister told me that I was playing it wrong. When I learnt this piece like 10 years ago, my sheet looked like this. But my sister showed me her music sheet from ...
zxcvber's user avatar
  • 153
1 vote
3 answers
150 views

How did Victorian Christmas carolers sing Christmas carols?

Do we have any idea of how Victorian Christmas carolers actually sang Christmas carols? What chords did they use, did they use ornaments etc, were there special ways that they ended the Christmas ...
Ana Maria's user avatar
3 votes
2 answers
127 views

Did Nicolas Gombert compose a clean change of note or slides as endings in his motets?

A member of the Facebook group Barbershop Harmony said that in live performances of Gombert motets, the Bass will randomly drop an octave on the last chord, within one syllable, whilst the other ...
Ana Maria's user avatar
7 votes
2 answers
2k views

Acciaccatura vs Appoggiatura in Beethoven

While studying the 2nd movement of Beethoven's Sonata Op.90, I found these appoggiaturas in bars 28-29. This is the Henle edition (which I find to be one of the most reliable editions for Beethoven); ...
kEldest's user avatar
  • 119
3 votes
1 answer
270 views

Why do notes not add up to the bar in this example by Couperin?

Consider following excerpt from the beginning of Couperin's Leçon des ténèbres pour le mercredi saint: I noticed that the note values don't always add up in a bar. Cases (indicated in the figure): ...
Karlo's user avatar
  • 1,527
0 votes
4 answers
478 views

Questions about mordents and trills (piano)

The difference between the symbols of a mordent and a trill is just a tiny vertical bar. Sometimes it could be misread when the print is blurred or too small. Is there a general rule, from the context,...
GrandAdagio's user avatar
  • 1,683
14 votes
3 answers
4k views

What does this downward triangular arrow mean?

What does the prime symbol above the note mean? I have not seen it before. This is from Haydn's Variations in F minor (Hob. XVII/6)
user1488's user avatar
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1 vote
3 answers
559 views

Term for One person performing a whole Arrangement with nothing else accompanying (As a Cover)

Like how "Unplugged Version" means the Original Song has been performed with 0 usage of technology-stuff (other than Microphone) [No editing, Acoustic Instruments only, No Faders, No ...
RishiNandha Vanchi's user avatar
3 votes
2 answers
3k views

What is a line prall?

I am composing a melody for piano in Musescore, and after experimenting on a particular note with various ornaments (i.e. trills, mordents, etc.) I decided to use a 'line prall'. It sounded good, so I ...
Micah Windsor's user avatar