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Are rests "spacers" between tones i.e. a phenomenon of rhythm, or rather "mute" tones in melody terms in your understanding? Or is it both in a way, some janus-headed thing? Or is that question once again not meaningful or just a peephole into a pile of misunderstandings? Why then?

I am a programmer, not so much if at any rate a musician, and currently find myself ended up to convey both meanings of rests in different places of a part of my code yielding random rhythmic tone+rest sequences to start with. I would rather like to decide for one and to change the other accordingly.

Is it possible or thinkable, in regard to existing music, that a variant of a figure/motif only fills a rest or "mutes" a tone compared with a form that occurs earlier in a piece? – this would imply a rest being a concept of melody.

In contrast, rests to separate phrases, themes or figures/motives only indicate their rhythmic nature, am I right?

(Just context: This question regards my setup of a workflow towards music abstraction insofar a software can reconstruct textually-defined sound and music as a nerd's art form symbiotically accompanying music. Yet I want to keep my ontology of terms and concepts aligned as much as possible to what and how musicians usually think, even though they will hardly ever get in touch with that freaky project.)

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    Why do you think that rhythm and melody are completely separate things?
    – ojs
    Commented Nov 21 at 18:20
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    There's an issue here between concepts and symbols that represent them, a sort of semiotic distinction. Rests are symbols. They may or may not create the perception of "something missing," and there may be other ways to represent lacunae. Consider: Someone claps their hands on every downbeat. Since a handclap has virtually no sustain, you could represent this with whole notes, or half notes separated by half rests, or quarter notes followed by 3 beats of rest, etc. The distinctions would be conceptual but not actual. Commented Nov 21 at 19:59
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    There is no definitive agreement on the "meaning" of rests. Rests are an actively debated element in the philosophy music, and there are a variety of views, beginning with determining what in the first place qualifies as music. Take a listen to Erwin Schulhoff's "In Futurum" and consider whether or not it's music. There are many different ways to conceptualize rests, all valid. Re-ask this is the chat room, where there can be open discussion. I have voted to close this question, because it is inherently opinion based.
    – Aaron
    Commented Nov 22 at 5:21
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    Aaron, the focus of the question is not what a rest is in general but in a subsystem of some software code that explicitly seperates a shard of music into a melody and rhythm component each reusable for different instances of the other, and the question is where rests do rather "belong" if I need to decide. Currently I tend to rhythm, denying the possibility that rests could be seen as tones without pitch and volume for any musical way of thinking. Commented Nov 22 at 14:59
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    @Aaron Do you honestly believe that it makes the world better if confusion about concepts is not accepted as questions here? Confusion about things is one of the primary reasons people ask questions at all. If only clearly defined and "commonly" understood concepts and words are accepted, the subject must be mathematics or something, not music. Commented Nov 23 at 22:11

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I'll throw out a concession to the concept: The way this is phrased leads everyone toward the answer "No, a rest is a rhythmic phenomenon; it doesn't represent a 'missing note.'" Except—if it does. If I take "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" and replace a note with a rest, everyone knows there was "supposed" to be a note there. enter image description here Just like if I write "Coca- ola," we know the space has replaced the letter C.

So, this is possible, but it speaks to intent (I made a purposeful replacement) and to recognition (I'm mutating familiar patterns). If I put a space in a random string of characters, "eonq rebie," does the space represent a missing letter? Maybe, maybe not. We see no recognized pattern in these letters. Maybe I generated them by replacing a letter with a space, maybe I just inserted a space. My intent isn't clear. Furthermore, in the string "Twinkle-twinkle-little-star," do the three hyphens "represent missing letters"? No, there they're clearly "spacers."

Now, for your software purposes, it seems like it's best to consider rests as "rhythmic elements" rather than "melodic." After all, silence has no pitch, but you can have silence for a duration of time. But if the point is to jumpstart your own compositional creativity, it could be interesting to explore subtractive processes, like dictating that certain notes be replaced by rests.

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    The same effect would be achieved by continuing the "kle" G note over to the next bar with a tied note. No rest symbols needed, but it would sound practically the same and the "surprise" aspect would be the same. Provided that the listener is shown the lyrics too. Commented Nov 26 at 17:46
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Rhythm and melody intersect. Certainly you cannot have a melody without rhythm.

Rests are not part of the pitch aspect of melody, so you could think of them as more purely a rhythmic element. But don't twist that around to somehow mean "not a melodic element." Melody and rhythm are not mutually exclusive in that way.

Rests can help demarcate melodic units like motif and phrase.

Rests come into play, notated or not, with articulations like staccato. This can be helpful to make clearly audible rhythms of repeated pitches.

Another practical use of rests is to allow performers to breath.

Another way to think of the purpose of rests is expressive. A rest before a pitched note can emphasize that subsequent note, because of the dynamic contrast.

I thought of one other aspect of rests. Rests can act like a "signal" which plays with musical anticipation and expectations. I suspect this is connected to memory and musical experience. An important idea is the distinction between a rest as temporary stop versus the formal end of the music. That can be exploited to create anticipation and satisfaction upon the continuation. Continuing with some repeated material is one way to make clear a temporary stop (and this brings in the memory aspect.) But other musical techniques can come into play, like imitation or antiphony. So, while in ensemble this music may not stop completely, rests are used to emphasize contrapuntal or timbre aspects of music.

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  • I would view some chants as having a melody even if the lengths of monotone sections are dictated by the text and have almost no rhythmic consistency.
    – supercat
    Commented Nov 22 at 21:40
  • "Certainly you cannot have a melody without rhythm." - I doubt a rhythm really is one if it only consists of notes of equal length, as I am challenged to regard a scale "fingered through" in one direction as a melody. The former is just a pulse, the latter just a scale. But a pulsed melody is a melody, while a scale with each half-step doubled in duration has a rhythm. So why a software shouldn't zip-assign a sequence of pitches to a sequence of durations, thus yielding a rhythmic melody and enable the user to manipulate and shift both parts independently? But true everything else you wrote. Commented Nov 23 at 12:40
  • @musiklanger A steady pulse is a rhythm. Pulse is one of the most important defining aspects in rhythm. The ups and downs, the hills and valleys of a melody line are another rhythmic aspect. A major scale played like C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C is a perfectly fine melody to me, it's very memorable and often quoted. To me, being accustomed to Western 4/4 music, it even has a kind of a chord progression baked into it, the "C-D-E-F" part implies a C major chord, and the "G-A-B" part implies a G major chord. The final C, being the 8th rather than 9th note, gives a groovy syncopated "pushed" ending. Nice tune! Commented Nov 24 at 17:17
  • @supercat, chant is melody. Did someone suggest otherwise? Commented Nov 24 at 20:39
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    @musiklanger, rhythms of a single durations are rhythm. Yes, a simple rhythm, but nonetheless it is rhythm. The same for scales and melody. Scales of any type are categorically melodic. Yes, simple, but still melody. This isn't about a superior mindset, it's just simple musical definitions. The detail your getting into in comments isn't about rests, but more importantly it's about style and aesthetics, not basic definitions and terminology. Commented Nov 25 at 16:32
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(Rhetorical questions which are not asking for clarification to the question:) How do you define "rest"? Do you mean a physical or perceptional phenomenon such as lack of sound or an abrupt end of sound, or an element in musical notation i.e. written instructions to musicians? If you play whole-notes with a xylophone sound, at tempo 20 bpm, do you have "rests" or not? Most of the time there's no sound at all, but no rests are written. Looking at the audio, you probably can't even specify an exact time when each note ends. If you cannot distinguish symbols in playing instructions from perceptional events, you will stay confused.

The perception of rhythm is defined by transients. A transient is a change in sound that's short enough to be perceived as having a clear timing. Transients occur in all aspects of music - pitch, harmony, timbre, dynamics, lyrics. You've probably heard of something called "harmonic rhythm". When an organist plays constantly changing chords without the sound ever completely stopping, you still hear a rhythm in the chord changes. No rests, no pauses, just transients in harmony. The same goes for, say, timbre. Control a filter cutoff frequency with a square-wave LFO, and you have a very clear rhythm, even though the sound never cuts out, never rests.

The abrupt ending of a sound can be a significant rhythm-defining transient, particularly for bass and other comping instruments. For a snappy sound that gradually fades out, there is only a clear beginning transient.

Melody, what is that? Musical elements can be categorized and perceived as working in either a leading or a supporting role. Any single central attention-grabbing, relatable, leading musical element can be a melody. Maybe not an official lawful wedded and blessed-by-a-priest melody, but a common-law melody. Cultural conventions and copyright-legal definitions may disagree, but even a rhythm in itself can be the melody that practically everybody remembers and can reproduce, like the stomp-stomp-clap rhythm in "We Will Rock You" by Queen. Though once the singing starts, the same rhythm gets in more of a supporting role.

How "melodic" music is, is defined by how well its elements can remembered, related to and reproduced by people. In pop music of today, there are lots of loudly played timed pitch changes that are so completely unmelodic, forgettable and indifferent that calling them melodies is disgraceful. Legally they may be melodies, who knows. It's subjective too. What things are melodic to you? A person coming from a different culture may consider your most memorable "melody" as being just noise. You have to separate theory and practice.

In addition to melodic rhythm, i.e. a rhythm that grabs your attention and makes you perceive it as belonging to the main "story" of the music, transients have other, supporting rhythmic roles, particularly pulse and swaying and harmonic rhythm. These provide context for other elements and they can be reflected as different meters in notation, but again, notation and actual audible music are not equivalent.

To sum it up, rests can be used for rhythmic purposes and a melody usually has a significant rhythmic element to it. But a melody doesn't necessarily need any written or perceived rests to be a melody.

Then the programming aspect. When listening to beginner players improvising, or songs they've written and produced, it often makes me feel that they can't make heads or tails of what they're doing. They can't tell if something is a leading or a supporting element. They may think they're accompanying a melody when in fact they're playing attention-seeking distracting things, competing melodies, producing a chaotic mess. Or they're supposed to play a solo, but all that comes out is indifferent, random note salad with no melodic effect, no story. The same goes for many generative music efforts. Rests, yes, it's probably good to have some kind of a rest feature in a music program, but what you can do with them - many different things, or nothing at all, if you want.

To write a computer program that's able to produce an actual melody and supporting accompaniment to it, how is the program going to know if its accompaniment will be perceived as melodic and competing with the lead melody? How can it tell that the assigned "melody" is even melodic and memorable at all? If you want to construct a "formula" for this, I think you should do it like many song-writers do, from very large building blocks such as chord changes and chord tones, meter, lyrical form and song form.

How to use rests: for your lead melody, add rests in places where the story-telling lead singer needs to breathe. For accompaniment, use rests to support the pulse and rhythmic swaying. For example, cut bass notes at snare hits.

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  • Excellent answer. When it comes to "To write a computer program [...] how is the program going to know [I suppose all the things composers traditionally have in their creative mind]?" I need to say the given computer program is supposed to only support my lacking (musical) creativity like disabled people use a wheel-chair, yet not having the wheel-chair tell them where to go and why. The computer plays out chains of intervals (and rests?) and durations (and rests?) and so on and let me find my music. Still I need to puzzle, to try and to listen e.g. to find out keys, chord progressions, stuff. Commented Nov 23 at 9:18
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    @musiklanger When you make a music-generating program or machine, you essentially end up creating some kind of a language of actions which produce sounds. And the sounds have perceived pitches, timbres, etc. and transients of those. It's balancing between explicit and implicit things, and finding the layer where you want to operate. Ultimately, you want to affect final audible phenomena and experiences, even though you can almost never control them directly. You can have a word "rest" in your command language, but it doesn't necessarily correlate with perceived rests, whatever they are. Commented Nov 23 at 20:10
  • Yeah, there is already the dot in charge of rests, and I can arrange offsets-from-bar of notes irrespective of their lengths. When I choose to let the pre-processor inspire me with (biased and shaped) random inserts of rhythm, melody or a both in connection, it is (was) a question which may introduce rests. I feel a strict decision on that is necessary for a faint tracibility of eventually too much rest. If I cor understand your answer, you would tend to favour rhythm, deferring any next pitch of melody, and withdraw non-pitched silent notes in terms of melody. staccatto is not the topic. Commented Nov 24 at 9:51
  • I tried to not suggest any particular hierarchy of importance, I wanted to point out that rhythm is essential. :) For the kind of music you're making, there can be no melody without rhythm. Transients i.e. changes in pitch, dynamics, harmony etc., have a time, and when perceived in sequence, they imply a rhythm. Pitch transients also imply harmony, so even a "monophonic" melody implies rhythm and harmony. Any note you generate, regardless of how you label it, will affect multiple dimensions of music. I don't think you can "insert melody", if it's something like MIDI notes you're inserting. Commented Nov 24 at 16:31
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Most theorists note that music does not consist entirely of sounds. Most obviously, much music includes rests. You might think that silence can function only to organize the sounds of music. One counterargument is that an understanding listener listens to the rests, just as she listens to the sounds (Kania 2010). Another is to provide putative cases of music in which the silences do not structure sounds as ordinary rests do. John Cage’s 4′33″ is frequently discussed, though there is broad agreement that this piece is not silent—its content is the ambient sounds that occur during its performance. (See Dodd 2018 for dissent.) Anyway, S. Davies (1997a), Dodd (2018), and Kania (2010) all argue that Cage’s piece is not music—Davies and Dodd because its sounds (if any) fail to qualify as organized, Kania because they fail to meet a tonality condition. Wadle (forthcoming) argues that the piece is music, because of its contextual connections to previous musical works. Kania considers several other contenders for the label of “silent music,” arguing that there are indeed extant examples, most notably Erwin Schulhoff’s “In Futurum” from his Fünf Pittoresken, which predates Cage’s 4′33″ by some 33 years.

From "The Philosophy of Music" in Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy.

As a starting point for reading on the subject. Here also are the items cited in the above paragraph.

  • Davies, Stephen, 1997a, “John Cage’s 4′33″: Is it Music?”, Australasian Journal of Philosophy, 75(4): 448–62. Reprinted in Davies 2003b: 11–29. doi:10.1080/00048409712348031
  • ———, 2003b, Themes in the Philosophy of Music, Oxford: Oxford University Press.
  • Dodd, Julian 2018, “What 4′33″ Is”, Australasian Journal of Philosophy, 96(4): 629–41.
  • Kania, Andrew, 2010, “Silent Music”, Journal of Aesthetics and Art Criticism, 68(4): 343–53. doi:10.1111/j.1540-6245.2010.01429.x
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Practically speaking, a note is a musical (choose your own definition of 'musical') event that starts and ends at a defined time. A rest is the silent gaps between these events.

Rests are an important element of music. But I don't think we perceive the onset of a rest in quite the way we do that of a note. Let notes be the main element, let rests be the spacers.

If you disagree with this on a philosophical level, fine. Compose a piece of music where absence of sound takes the focus. I suppose we have to cite '4′33″' here . But Cage messed it up when he stated that the piece was not about silence as such, but about the accidental sounds that occur during a nominal silence.

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  • "If you disagree with this on a philosophical level, fine" – I rather agree that rests are spacers in contrast to notes without pitch and intensity. But contradiction by musicians is probable. If I make up a sequence of 16 sounding tones of equal length and replace one or two by rests, listening people might think tones are missing or they enjoy the rest, depending on the surrounding tones. Just an assumption how "melody" party could argue. Commented Nov 23 at 10:58

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